There’s a discussion among some folks that has been going on over the last few weeks that I thought was worth pointing out for those who haven’t come across it. It has seemed to take two directions, both quite introspective and dealing with some of the same concerns. The main thread through it all being the definition of our craft.
There are now so many web sites, blogs or publications devoted to helping people learn standards and accessible techniques that there are now no excuses not to work with semantic code or CSS. Those people still delivering nested table layout, spacer gifs or ignoring accessibility can no longer call themselves web professionals. – Andy Clarke
Many of us, Old Professionals have been involved in mailing lists and online communities advocating standards, accessibility, guidelines as well as offering help, information, and resources for several years. We do it because we are passionate and believe in what we are doing. Advocating has not been easy, but it is rewarding and exciting to see change and understanding grow. We have been doing this since the mid to late 1990’s, and much of the early advocacy and information exchanges were the groundwork for all the excellent information and resources that exist today. We need to look outside of our web community and start working in other areas, too. – Holly Marie Koltz
Just in the last couple of days I have read no less than three articles that all bring up something I have felt for a long time: Web professionals who refuse to update their skills and insist on using outdated methods can no longer be called web professionals.
Some will call me an elitist for saying that. But think about it. Why should web professionals not be required to know their craft? I find that attitude – which is held by many in the industry and by many more outside of it – insulting to those of us who work hard every day to keep up with current best practices. – Roger Johansson
It look like many are itching both to clarify exactly what it is that we’re trying to accomplish when we talk with a mouthful of buzzwords like CSS, XHTML, Semantics, Unobtrusive JavaScript, Accessibility and do a better job at defining the product that it is our “job” to produce and measures of quality. Its not just about the pretty and the visual polish — we know that, but how many others do?
One topic but not part of the discussion yet is the education of the new clients. This can be difficult, and some may say irrelevant. After all, its the developers who can often do much of this work and have it slip under the radar of management who don’t know what things like View Source is. But if there are real advantages beyond making the individual coder’s life easier then we should be looking for new ways to articulate, measure and present those benefits to clients and stake holders. Again, we know how to define “quality”, but unless those funding projects can situations like the oft-cited Disney Store UK redesign will continue to be somewhat common because management is working off a totally different system of measurement.
Again, its about both clarifying the product that “web professionals” should be offering, what the benefits are, and then getting that information spread to all those people who have a stake in what it is we do. Its not a new question at all, but is it time to refocus on it and regroup? If so where do we start?
- Molly E. Holzschlag: Web Standards and The New Professionalism
- Roger Johansson: A web professional can never stop learning
- Holly Marie Koltz: Beyond New Professionalism
- PPK: The New Amateurs
- PPK: The New Amateurs – part 2
- Roger Johansson: Reaching and helping the new amateurs
And if the above wasn’t enough I’ll leave you with a couple relevant asides:
This all sounds a little self-righteous don’t you think?
I think it sounds like someone knows alot of things and believes that if everyone knew where those things were located then it would be simple to follow the standards.But maybe he should have posted all those links along with that commment to all these fabolous things.Me personaly I found it very hard to learn about standards for css and valid XHTML as well as to how to validate it thru the WC3 checker.
I’m not totally sure how to respond vitaflo, did you think that my post felt self-righteous, that some of the quote of others were, or that the general idea that there is a “right” way do to things or that our profession can really be defined is self-righteous?
Individual comments I may have linked aside, as some of them were out of frustration and clearly directed at the already converted, if you want to take a step back, the idea of people working to define what is “good” or “proper” and then trying to educate anyone that went looking for that information isn’t new. Its what groups like the WaSP and authors like Zeldman or Veen have had on their agenda for years.
But realizing that a lot of energy has been spent over time on this topic, and in many cases the landscape of the web is the same as it always was—with developers and stake holders alike only concerning themselves with best practice if its in their nature to seek the information out—with so many books, tutorials, high school and college courses still teaching newcomers markup like its 1999—some are wondering aloud what can be done differently to better get information into the hands of everyone who touches markup and do a better job at defining our trade.
Its also about continuing education beyond just the exposure to XHTML, CSS or the DOM and the general feeling that it has been quite easy for “professionals” to settle into a style of coding—be it 1999 or 2003 or 2005—and rest on that. One can get by, and I have at times myself, just doing the same thing for long periods of time without updating their skills or keeping onto of new technologies—be them Ajax, microformats, new browsers like Firefox, Safari, or IE7, or even less technical elements that go into the business side and questions of why does one need a website or how can you get the best ROI out of a site.
Ultimately as Ashley eludes to its less about elitism or self-righteousness and more a matter of knowing that this stuff isn’t hard or restrictive and that the information is already out there, but needing to look at how we present the information and trying to do a better job at making a case that some of this does matter, that the web is still evolving and getting the information in front of more of the people that touch the web—be it in a classroom or a boardroom or hacking their myspace page.
Sorry it took me a bit to respond, I just saw your reply (this is one thing I hate about blog software, why can’t they figure out a way to let people reply to others and then I can get an email saying you did?).
Anyway, my comment was not about your post per-se, mostly about the quotes in it and some of the links. I mean, none of the sites I have online validate, some of them use nested tables, all them use CSS though some of the CSS is inline, they’re probably not semantically correct and I have no clue about their accessibility beyond the top 3 browsers. Am I not a web professional anymore? Do I not create good websites? Do people look at the sites I create and say OMG TEH SUXORZ because of it?
I guess my point is I don’t see how it helps to tell people “if you don’t know everything I know, you’re not a web professional”. That just reeks of elitism. I mean common, “New Professionalism”?! That’s an Us vs Them mentality that only makes it harder for “Them” to support your cause (which is what you want!).
All I’m saying is that people need to be less exclusive and more inclusive. When I read shit like this is just totally turns me off, which I assume is the opposite of the goal of the people writing it.
I too think standards are important, especially with so many new device options there are today, and will be tomorrow. It is unfortunate that I work with a company that has been using professional web software fro years, that does not validate – and it is going to be a monumentus task to get all of thier sites and clients’ sites updated.
I think we need to hold web creation software companies accountable, not neccessary try to alienate those who are purposely ignoring standards, then everyone may join in this issue.
| This all sounds a little self-righteous don’t you think? |
Maybe…
Let Micrsosoft do the work
Thats the only company able to change the web-world.
I totally disagree nemo Microsoft should not be aloud to run the web, we need competetion in every market to ensure fair pricing. I hope Linux takes off for the sake of the web, and programs like wordpress so anyone can use the web free.
@Kary
Correct and true words!
Thank you for the great information. Greetings from Schwarzenbek Postkarten Flohmarkt
@nemo
ppleease not MS
yeah i agree with you absolutetely – and i have to thank you a lot! it’s realy helpful thanks Praca
Verry interesting article.Thanks
No more MS
Thank you for your article very interesting.
Thanks all for the kind words about the article.
As to the MS issue, as to this topic I think its really a non-issue—or at least a misplaced issue.
MS just will not “run” the web, or be a big enough player that you can ignore everything else. I think they had their chance to become that by now and it hasn’t happened. And it will be less and less possible as time goes on and more devices look to get access to web content (See recent news of Opera on Wii).
As for IE hate specifically:
Because of the way the web works, as a random assortment of connected devices and client applications there will /always/ be a MSIE for windows and there will /always/ be an IE5/mac (which I see as two totally different beasts with different reasons for paint they sometimes cause people). Its our job as professionals to understand this and help our clients understand this.
There just is no getting around the fact that there will always be ‘non-compliant’ UAs out there, or great UAs for their time but now outdated, or even current compliant UAs that may not support all the standards that one may long for. There will also always be that next spec or next revision to a standard that you can’t wait to see make thigns “better”. This isn’t an MS issue at its heart, they’re just the current whipping boy since no one gives a damn about NN4 anymore.
Thank you for your article very, very interesting on top of that it’s realy helpful.
A very good and sophisticated article.
Thank you!
Thanks for the excellent article and resource. Nice work on top of that it’s realy helpful..
Thanks again
Trucksnews
Thank you for the great information. Greetings from
This all sounds a little self-righteous don’t you think?
We need competetion in every market to ensure fair pricing, so Microsoft shouldn´t be the only one…
Only my thoughts, Plasma
Thanks for the great information.
the good and the bad ones the old and the new ones. everybody is calling himself a web professional these days and in these days i reallyget tired of all the people writing articles with lass than one year of web experience. i am getting more and more retired.
great article. thx very much
Thank you for the great information.
Ich finde Ihre Website sehr ansprechend und wünschen viel Erfolg.
Gefällt mir gut. Komme bestimmt
öfters mal vorbei, Gruss aus Der Pfalz
nadine
Thanks for the excellent article – more please!
Bloggers have craft, all together, old professionals and newmbies – think about this history with J.W. ****
A quite intresting idea is realized in this website! And a good and easy to handle design has been found too!
Lets see what Micrsosoft Vista will can.
It comes more and more like apple.
This seem to be the discussion that never dies.. which is certainly a good thing, the topic remains to be relevant
/Brutsvergro and others/
Thanks for the kind words.
/Logodesign/
I’m not sure what vista and it looking like an apple product has to do with anything